I genuinely feel like you pang for revolution, but I generally view it as the worst possibility for the Israelis and Jewish people. Every destruction of the Jewish state has been the consequence of civil war. If the people remain unified, a Jewish Commonwealth continues to thrive and thus the Jewish people. It doesn’t matter who controls the state apparatus as long as it’s Jewish controlled (and please the secularist are still Jews it take a lot of contorting to thing otherwise)
The second point is Israel needs to desperately federate. You can have your halachic state. The leftists can have their secular state in Tel Aviv.
I genuinely believe greater Israel will happen. The haredi demographic explosion is just so momentous that it will easily allow the settling of the entire levant. With the “Arabs” who are not really even Arabs. Just becoming a demographic minority.
I understand it takes a serious ideological messianism to get up from cozy America to move to some hillside judea. I just don’t think arguing for revolution is helping the Jewish people whatsoever.
More broadly: if a messianic figure is to arise from this wondering movement I doubt it will require revolution, but rather a complete rewriting of the procedural laws through the legislature.
The state is not united. The people running the apparatus are explicitly anti-Jewish. Federation will not happen because they'd a million times rather have a Palestinian state than a halachic one in the Shomron. There won't be a rewriting of laws for the same reason that there's no accountability for the senior leaders of the IDF; the people capable of making it happen are not interested, and the people who are interested are not capable. These are coup-complete problems.
I am not arguing for anything. I am trying to see what's coming.
The state is unified enough. The ruling elite are not explicitly anti-Jewish. They’re far off from criminalizing Torah study or putting religious people in concentration camps.
You cannot expect the Israeli people to be unified. Israel has like 7 different biomes which necessitates different types of living traditions. There is already a blueprint for federation in the Torah. Just divide the country along tribal lines.
The left can easily be cajoled into pursuing it. 1 America is federated. 2. This is in favor of protecting the lefts way of life way more than the religious.
I just generally view federation as necessary amongst such a tumultuous and opinionated people as the Jews. It doesn’t matter that the current divide is right left. The Haredim and settlers disagree just as much as the left disagrees with the Haredim.
Demographics are in the religious peoples favors. I assume we eventually have a Taliban like Israel ( I don’t view this as a bad thing per say). I just care that the Israeli state continues to exist and is ruled by Jews whatever flavor. I view a coup and argument-lite in its favor as an incredibly dangerous to the continuation of the Jewish state.
Very thought provoking. Judaism was actually founded as the ultimate anti-archetypical religion (The entire story of the reluctant Moshe and his band of merry complainers, David’s distinctly unroyal background, etc.). I believe that dynamic will play out in the ultimate redemption as well.
Moshe's story is also a version of the First Story: cast out into the wilderness (a river in this case,) then raised in the royal family, then another escape into the wilderness and a return to establish justice and set his people up.
I’d describe it as more of a parody/mockery of several archetypes to show that Hashem and not the ‘hero’ is the true actor. Has all the basic elements but subverts them as a mockery of the true archetype (base pedigree, only acts through Hashem rather than his own power, never actually enters the Promised Land, etc.) Similar with story of Avram, who had to have his his name changed to succeed, Jacob, the studious one who defeated the more ‘heroic’ Esau, etc.
This dialogue with the deleted is fascinating. It’s a veritable WhatIf Wadi of Jungian anonymous archetypes… wafting through the deleted Wadis of the Web…..
…. someday Alien 👽 archeologists will be searching for the deleted tribe of the smelly “dentists” …. Sniffing round the ruins for the lost scent of the Dentists El Dorado, the lost perfume of Z …
This alien civilization uses Scents as money, I forgot to mention…
Someone mentioned federation, but I really wonder whether what this place needs is a City State, embedded precisely where none of the 'elite' goons want it. An 'anti-Gaza' if you will.
I'm also reminded of the rather compelling idea by Jane Jacobs, of Cities as the core economic driver.
Having a Jewish City state with its own currency, manufacturing, and security forces might bypass the issues with the larger 'System' Golem.
These hilltop youth are neither Taliban nor are capable of becoming it. Also, the Haredim, uneducated and untrained welfare queens that they are, will never sacrifice their parochial interests for the hilltop’s ideals. The hilltop youth themselves are low status poorly educated peasants. And should their numbers grow sufficiently large as to present even remote danger, they will be relocated into re-education camps and their children taken away from them into “safety.” Not to mention, since they are potential terrorists, their army training opportunities will be curtailed (other than maybe being used as strategic meat, like in Gaza). China has shown the way.
Tribal and clan oriented Pashtuns are not dorks. The former were successful. The latter won’t be, for at least 7 generations to come, if left unchecked. But you can keep dreaming about what may happen in 150 years.
The only real way forward is via gutsy people at the top, who are from the elite. It is unlikely that even it’ll happen in this generation, however.
What’s going on there? Guys still putting up outposts that get torn down and then built up again so in the end the land will be sold to giant development companies and then carpet bombed with cuckboxes as you call them?
Or guys still heading to Gaza to fight under hiloni commanders who haven’t promoted one non-pepperoni size kipa wearer to a high rank since the war started despite the vast majority of those dying being religious guys? The one guy who has a mind and basic war strategy to do something (Ofer Winter) has been pushed out. Can you suggest the name of this mythical hilltop youth figure that a bunch of regular Israelis going to gather behind?
No I read it. And the guy who commented has a point. If being in the hilltops just blows your mind with evidence as to what’s brewing, I would think that being in the capital Jerusalem and in the same circles/groups, this evidence would trickle down to the common man who this zeitgeist is supposed to also grab a hold of. Sorry but we haven’t felt it in the capital, and the country is the size of New Jersey. All I see is the “right wing” coalition that’s hanging on by threads and dependent on who’s going to win in America while non of the fighting guys in Gaza are even willing to disobey orders to leave once those orders come in, which we all know will.
“They are not necessarily inherently good or evil but can be turned to either, informed by free will and context.”
Literally thought this was written by a president of Columbia or MIT explaining how context matters when discussing something that’s seemingly so inherent as you put the idea of archetypes
Ahh, Jung, archetypes, brothers in arms, the romantic revolution. Intoxicating. Dry wadi, a good metaphor. I honestly no longer know.
Thank you for taking the time to enrich the discourse
Great stuff, Baruch, thanks.
I genuinely feel like you pang for revolution, but I generally view it as the worst possibility for the Israelis and Jewish people. Every destruction of the Jewish state has been the consequence of civil war. If the people remain unified, a Jewish Commonwealth continues to thrive and thus the Jewish people. It doesn’t matter who controls the state apparatus as long as it’s Jewish controlled (and please the secularist are still Jews it take a lot of contorting to thing otherwise)
The second point is Israel needs to desperately federate. You can have your halachic state. The leftists can have their secular state in Tel Aviv.
I genuinely believe greater Israel will happen. The haredi demographic explosion is just so momentous that it will easily allow the settling of the entire levant. With the “Arabs” who are not really even Arabs. Just becoming a demographic minority.
I understand it takes a serious ideological messianism to get up from cozy America to move to some hillside judea. I just don’t think arguing for revolution is helping the Jewish people whatsoever.
More broadly: if a messianic figure is to arise from this wondering movement I doubt it will require revolution, but rather a complete rewriting of the procedural laws through the legislature.
The state is not united. The people running the apparatus are explicitly anti-Jewish. Federation will not happen because they'd a million times rather have a Palestinian state than a halachic one in the Shomron. There won't be a rewriting of laws for the same reason that there's no accountability for the senior leaders of the IDF; the people capable of making it happen are not interested, and the people who are interested are not capable. These are coup-complete problems.
I am not arguing for anything. I am trying to see what's coming.
The state is unified enough. The ruling elite are not explicitly anti-Jewish. They’re far off from criminalizing Torah study or putting religious people in concentration camps.
You cannot expect the Israeli people to be unified. Israel has like 7 different biomes which necessitates different types of living traditions. There is already a blueprint for federation in the Torah. Just divide the country along tribal lines.
The left can easily be cajoled into pursuing it. 1 America is federated. 2. This is in favor of protecting the lefts way of life way more than the religious.
I just generally view federation as necessary amongst such a tumultuous and opinionated people as the Jews. It doesn’t matter that the current divide is right left. The Haredim and settlers disagree just as much as the left disagrees with the Haredim.
Demographics are in the religious peoples favors. I assume we eventually have a Taliban like Israel ( I don’t view this as a bad thing per say). I just care that the Israeli state continues to exist and is ruled by Jews whatever flavor. I view a coup and argument-lite in its favor as an incredibly dangerous to the continuation of the Jewish state.
Very thought provoking. Judaism was actually founded as the ultimate anti-archetypical religion (The entire story of the reluctant Moshe and his band of merry complainers, David’s distinctly unroyal background, etc.). I believe that dynamic will play out in the ultimate redemption as well.
Moshe's story is also a version of the First Story: cast out into the wilderness (a river in this case,) then raised in the royal family, then another escape into the wilderness and a return to establish justice and set his people up.
I’d describe it as more of a parody/mockery of several archetypes to show that Hashem and not the ‘hero’ is the true actor. Has all the basic elements but subverts them as a mockery of the true archetype (base pedigree, only acts through Hashem rather than his own power, never actually enters the Promised Land, etc.) Similar with story of Avram, who had to have his his name changed to succeed, Jacob, the studious one who defeated the more ‘heroic’ Esau, etc.
Moshe's encounter with HaShem happens halfway into his character arc. He is indeed the hero of his story. HaShem treats us as partners, not puppets.
This dialogue with the deleted is fascinating. It’s a veritable WhatIf Wadi of Jungian anonymous archetypes… wafting through the deleted Wadis of the Web…..
…. someday Alien 👽 archeologists will be searching for the deleted tribe of the smelly “dentists” …. Sniffing round the ruins for the lost scent of the Dentists El Dorado, the lost perfume of Z …
This alien civilization uses Scents as money, I forgot to mention…
Sniff, sniff…. What’s on sale… sniff… 👽
In curious what you think Israel will look like in 10 years- 2025.
Someone mentioned federation, but I really wonder whether what this place needs is a City State, embedded precisely where none of the 'elite' goons want it. An 'anti-Gaza' if you will.
I'm also reminded of the rather compelling idea by Jane Jacobs, of Cities as the core economic driver.
Having a Jewish City state with its own currency, manufacturing, and security forces might bypass the issues with the larger 'System' Golem.
These are both coup-complete problems
Every coup-hard problem is merely coup-difficult 50 years down the line.
These hilltop youth are neither Taliban nor are capable of becoming it. Also, the Haredim, uneducated and untrained welfare queens that they are, will never sacrifice their parochial interests for the hilltop’s ideals. The hilltop youth themselves are low status poorly educated peasants. And should their numbers grow sufficiently large as to present even remote danger, they will be relocated into re-education camps and their children taken away from them into “safety.” Not to mention, since they are potential terrorists, their army training opportunities will be curtailed (other than maybe being used as strategic meat, like in Gaza). China has shown the way.
Tribal and clan oriented Pashtuns are not dorks. The former were successful. The latter won’t be, for at least 7 generations to come, if left unchecked. But you can keep dreaming about what may happen in 150 years.
The only real way forward is via gutsy people at the top, who are from the elite. It is unlikely that even it’ll happen in this generation, however.
You don't live here, do you?
He does have a point
I haven't seen you around the hilltops either
What’s going on there? Guys still putting up outposts that get torn down and then built up again so in the end the land will be sold to giant development companies and then carpet bombed with cuckboxes as you call them?
Or guys still heading to Gaza to fight under hiloni commanders who haven’t promoted one non-pepperoni size kipa wearer to a high rank since the war started despite the vast majority of those dying being religious guys? The one guy who has a mind and basic war strategy to do something (Ofer Winter) has been pushed out. Can you suggest the name of this mythical hilltop youth figure that a bunch of regular Israelis going to gather behind?
Did you have ChatGPT summarize the article for you?
No I read it. And the guy who commented has a point. If being in the hilltops just blows your mind with evidence as to what’s brewing, I would think that being in the capital Jerusalem and in the same circles/groups, this evidence would trickle down to the common man who this zeitgeist is supposed to also grab a hold of. Sorry but we haven’t felt it in the capital, and the country is the size of New Jersey. All I see is the “right wing” coalition that’s hanging on by threads and dependent on who’s going to win in America while non of the fighting guys in Gaza are even willing to disobey orders to leave once those orders come in, which we all know will.
“They are not necessarily inherently good or evil but can be turned to either, informed by free will and context.”
Literally thought this was written by a president of Columbia or MIT explaining how context matters when discussing something that’s seemingly so inherent as you put the idea of archetypes
Two questions. First, do you have a dent in your forehead? Second, have you already made your post-deportation plans?
It is genuinely baffling how Israel does not throw hundreds of thousands into prison for incitement and hate speech.
Yes, that's the height of ambition for you Dentists, which is why your countries look and smell the way they do.